Really: Is it safe to spin-dry leafy greens in a washing machine?

Back when we started on our TV cooking video paper about 2000, we were appalled to watch a British celebrity cook drying carrots in the dryer.

Some of the nearly 1,000 small farmers in New England who grow leafy greens apparently dry the fresh veggies after a triple dip in water in a conventional home washing machine.

The spin cycle of a retrofitted washing machine wicks the water off the greens to dry and keep them fresher longer. This discovery by farmers offered a way to automate the drying process without investing in a prohibitively expensive, commercial-grade spinner. 

An important question lingers about this practice, which University of Massachusetts Amherst food scientists hope to answer: Is it safe?

“This has been a common practice among small producers of greens,” says Amanda Kinchla, a UMass Amherst extension associate professor of food science. “There are no regulations against this, but there is no data right now on the risk.”

Kinchla, a co-director of the USDA-funded Northeast Center to Advance Food Safety, and UMass Amherst food science colleagues Lynne McLandsborough and Matthew Moore have received a $71,000 grant from the Massachusetts Department of Agricultural Resources and the U.S. Department of Agriculture to study and address the microbial safety risks of processing leafy greens in washing machines. The Northeast Center to Advance Food Safety, led by the University of Vermont, promotes food safety education and technical support to small- and medium-size producers and processors in the northeast region.

The UMass Amherst team is building on work at the University of Vermont Extension, where the agricultural engineering program has been conducting workshops and creating posters for farmers on how to follow a hygienic design to convert washing machines into greens spinners and use them safely.

“My work is more impactful if I can address real-world stakeholder issues and leverage what already has been done,” Kinchla says.

Andrew Chamberlin, UVM Extension agricultural engineering technician, explains that bacteria and grime have the potential to accumulate if farmers don’t know how best to spin the greens and clean the machines. “We are trying to share best practices for food production,” he says.

For example, placing the greens in baskets that fit inside the machine results in fewer points of contact, reducing the risk of contamination, compared with putting the greens directly into the washing machine.

Kinchla’s team has converted four washing machines, based on Chamberlin’s directions, to study in the lab how contamination may occur, what kinds of microbes are present and how best to safely maintain, clean and sanitize the machine.

“We are examining whether the spin cycle on a washing machine has any more risk than commercially available, post-harvest leafy greens spinners,” Kinchla says.

Exotic food lover in China who once gobbled down a raw snake gall bladder has lungs riddled with worms

An exotic food lover from China who once devoured a snake gall has found his lungs festered with worms.

Doctors said that the infection could be caused by eating raw food or drinking unclean water.

Shocking footage shows a medic pointing out the serious, line-shaped infections on the man’s lungs on CT scans.

The Chinese resident, known by his surname Wang, recently went to a hospital in Suqian, Jiangsu province of eastern China after suffering difficulty in breathing for several months.

When the doctors asked about his dietary habits, Mr Wang said that he enjoyed having seafood, such as crayfish and river snails.

The food lover also confessed that he even gobbled down a raw snake gall once before.

The patient was later diagnosed with paragonimiasis, a food-borne parasitic infection caused by lung fluke.

Only time you’ll ever see a n Us video from me.

Chipotle: Another gift that keeps on giving, $25 million criminal fine for food poisoning

Chipotle Mexican Grill Inc. will, according to Edvard Pettersson of Bloomberg, pay a $25 million criminal fine to resolve allegations by federal prosecutors that its food sickened more than 1,100 people across the U.S. from 2015 to 2018.

It’s the largest fine ever imposed in a food-safety case, according to a statement by the U.S. attorney’s office in Los Angeles.

The criminal charges pertain in part to norovirus outbreaks at Chipotle restaurants. The highly contagious virus can be transmitted by infected food workers handling ready-to-eat foods and their ingredients, according to the statement. It can cause severe symptoms, including diarrhea, vomiting and abdominal cramping.

“Chipotle failed to ensure that its employees both understood and complied with its food safety protocols, resulting in hundreds of customers across the country getting sick,” U.S. Attorney Nick Hanna said in the statement announcing the deferred-prosecution agreement.

The Newport Beach, California-based company said that, as part of the agreement, it will its strengthen its food-safety polices and practices.

“This settlement represents an acknowledgment of how seriously Chipotle takes food safety every day and is an opportunity to definitively turn the page on past events and focus on serving our customers real food made with real ingredients that they can enjoy with confidence,” Brian Niccol, chairman and chief executive officer of the company, said in a statement.

Prosecutors alleged that four norovirus outbreaks were caused by employees showing up to work sick, in violation of company policy, and by food products being stored at the wrong temperatures.

A fifth outbreak — which sickened about 647 people in July 2018 who dined at a Chipotle in Ohio — was from Clostridium perfringens, a bacterium found in raw meat and poultry that is one of the most common types of foodborne illness in the U.S. People who get ill from it usually recover in 24 hours and it’s not contagious.

Managers at the company’s restaurants failed on a number of occasions to notify Chipotle’s safety group at its headquarters when an employee had been vomiting at work, according to prosecutors. Instead, the safety analysts would find out only after contacting the restaurant because it had received a complaint from a sick customer. As a result, there were days of delay before the restaurants were sanitized.

Jimmy Johns: The E. coli gift that keeps on giving

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control reports that as of April 22, 2020, this outbreak linked to clover sprouts appears to be over.

51 people infected with the outbreak strain of E. coli O103 were reported from 10 states.

3 people were hospitalized. No deaths were reported.

Epidemiologic, traceback, and laboratory evidence indicated that clover sprouts were the source of this outbreak.

On March 16, 2020, Chicago Indoor Garden recalled external icon all products containing red clover sprouts. More information about this recall is available on the FDA website.external icon

Jimmy John’s LLC reported that all of its restaurants stopped serving clover sprouts on February 24, 2020.

People usually get sick from Shiga toxin-producing E. coli (STEC) 1 to 10 days (average of 3 to 4 days) after swallowing the germ.

Symptoms vary, but often include severe stomach cramps, diarrhea (often bloody), and vomiting. Some people may have a fever, which usually is not very high (less than 101˚F/38.5˚C).

Some people with a STEC infection may get a type of kidney failure called hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS).

Antibiotics are not recommended for patients with suspected E. coli infections until diagnostic testing can be performed and E. coli infection is ruled out. Some studies have shown that administering antibiotics to patients with E. coli infections might increase their risk of developing HUS, and a benefit of treatment has not been clearly demonstrated.

CDC, public health and regulatory officials in several states, and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) investigated a multistate outbreak of E. coli O103 infections linked to clover sprouts.

Public health investigators used the PulseNet system to identify illnesses that were part of this outbreak. PulseNet is the national subtyping network of public health and food regulatory agency laboratories coordinated by CDC. DNA fingerprinting is performed on E. coli bacteria isolated from ill people by using a standardized laboratory and data analysis method called whole genome sequencing (WGS). CDC PulseNet manages a national database of these sequences that are used to identify possible outbreaks. WGS gives investigators detailed information about the bacteria causing illness. In this investigation, WGS showed that bacteria isolated from ill people were closely related genetically. This means that people in this outbreak were likely to share a common source of infection.

A total of 51 people infected with the outbreak strain of E. coli O103 were reported from 10 states. A list of the states and the number of cases in each can be found on the Map of Reported Cases.

Illnesses started on dates ranging from January 6, 2020, to March 15, 2020. Ill people ranged in age from 1 to 79 years, with a median age of 29 years. Fifty-five percent of ill people were female. Of 41 ill people with information available, 3 were hospitalized and no deaths were reported.

WGS analysis of isolates from 39 ill people was performed; the isolate from 1 ill person predicted antibiotic resistance to streptomycin, sulfisoxazole, tetracycline, and trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole, and 38 isolates from ill people did not show evidence of antibiotic resistance. Standard antibiotic susceptibility testing by CDC’s National Antimicrobial Resistance Monitoring System (NARMS) laboratory is currently underway. These findings do not affect treatment guidance since antibiotics are not recommended for patients with STEC O103 infections.

Investigation of the Outbreak

Epidemiologic, traceback, and laboratory evidence indicated that clover sprouts were the source of this outbreak.

In interviews, ill people answered questions about the foods they ate and other exposures they had in the week before their illness started. Eighteen (56%) of 32 people interviewed reported eating sprouts. This percentage is significantly higher than results from a survey pdf icon[PDF – 787 KB] of healthy people in which 8% reported eating sprouts in the week before they were interviewed.

Seventeen (63%) of 27 people interviewed reported eating sprouts at a Jimmy John’s restaurant. Jimmy John’s LLC reported that all of their restaurants stopped serving clover sprouts on February 24, 2020. Clover sprouts are no longer available at Jimmy John’s restaurants.

Additionally, FDA identified the outbreak strain of E. coli O103 in samples of Chicago Indoor Garden products that contain sprouts. On March 16, 2020, Chicago Indoor Garden recalledexternal icon all products containing red clover sprouts.

FDA’s traceback investigationexternal icon showed that a common seed lot was used to grow both the sprouts recalled by Chicago Indoor Garden and sprouts that were served at some Jimmy John’s locations. The same seed lot was also used to grow sprouts linked to an outbreakexternal icon of the same strain of E. coli O103 infections in 2019.

As of April 22, 2020, this outbreak appears to be over.

Raw is risky: Study finds raw-type dog foods as a major source of multidrug-resistant bacteria that could potentially colonize humans

I’m nervous this is not peer-reviewed, has a small sample size, but thought I’d share anyway.

I’ve never fed any of my pets a raw-food diet.

New research due to be presented at this year’s European Congress of Clinical Microbiology and Infectious Diseases (ECCMID) reveals that raw-type dog foods contain high levels of multidrug-resistant bacteria, including those resistant to last-line antibiotics. The potential transfer of such bacteria between dogs and humans is an international public health risk, conclude the authors who include Dr. Ana Raquel Freitas and colleagues from the Faculty of Pharmacy, UCIBIO/REQUIMTE, University of Porto, Portugal.

Enterococci are opportunistic pathogens—so they are part of our normal internal microbiota but can cause infections (for example in patients who are immunosuppressed or hospitalised).

Raw-food-based diets for dogs have grown popularity recently as a healthier choice. Increasing controversy regarding their safety is emerging, with some scientific evidence showing their role as vehicles for transmission of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. In addition, dogs have been described as reservoirs of clinically-relevant ampicillin-resistant (AmpR) Enterococcus faecium, but the source remains unknown.

In this study, the authors analysed enterococci obtained from processed (both dry and wet types) and non-processed (raw-frozen) foods of the main brands commercialised in Portugal. The study included 46 samples (22 wet, 15 dry, 9 raw-frozen) from 24 international brands, sourced from 8 supermarkets and one veterinary clinic. Samples were obtained during September to November, 2019.

Raw-frozen samples were mainly constituted of salmon, chicken, turkey, calf, deer or duck, being a mixture of different meat types, fruits and vegetables.

Samples were cultured and then tested with a range of antibiotics. Enterococci (n=163) were identified in 19/46 (41%) of the samples: 8 of 15 (53%) in the dry foods; 2 of 22 (9%) of the wet samples, and 9 of 9 (100%) in the raw-frozen samples, and identified as the Enterococcus species E. faecium (91 isolates), E. faecalis (59 isolates) or other species (13 isolates).

Across the 9 raw-frozen meat samples, there were 30 E. faecium and 30 E. faecalis recovered. All nine carried multidrug-resistant (MDR) enterococci (20 E. faecium and 22 E. faecalis), including those resistant to a wide range of antibiotics, while only one MDR- E. faecium (resistant to erythromycin/tetracycline/gentamicin) was detected in one of the wet food samples and none in the dry food samples.

Resistance was found to the antibiotics ampicillin, ciprofloxacin, erythromycin, tetracycline, streptomycin and chloramphenicol in all 9 raw-type samples; seven of nine contained enterococci resistant to the last line antibiotic linezolid (78%), and six of nine contained enterococci resistant to gentamicin or quinupristin-dalfopristin. Resistance to clinically-relevant antibiotics such as linezolid, ampicillin or ciprofloxacin was only detected in raw-frozen samples.

The authors conclude: “Our study demonstrates that raw-frozen-foods for dogs carry MDR enterococci including to last-line antibiotics (linezolid) for the treatment of human infections. The close contact of pets with humans and the commercialisation of the studied brands in different EU countries pose an international public health risk if transmission of such strains occurs between dogs and humans. There is strong past and recent evidence that dogs and humans share common multidrug-resistant strains of E. faecium, and thus the potential for these strains to be transmitted to humans from dogs.”

Dr. Freitas adds: “These raw-frozen foods are supposed to be consumed after being thawed and could at least be cooked, to kill these drug-resistant and other bacteria. Although these foods seem to be regulated regarding their microbiological safety by EU authorities, risk assessment of biological hazards should also include antibiotic-resistant bacteria and/or genes besides only establishing the presence of bacterial pathogens, such as Salmonella.”

Practical ways to help vets during COVID-19

Maureen Anderson writes in the Worms & Germs Blog, “the COVID-19 pandemic has put a lot of strain on a lot of people, and those in the veterinary profession are no exception.  Thank you, Captain Obvious. 

Self-care and mental health support at times like these are critical, but can be hard to come by for many still working on the front lines in clinics, both human and veterinary.  It’s important to recognize that everyone is stressed, even our clients, but giving others that extra little bit of leeway and understanding can be tough when you’re already at the end of your own rope. (Right, that’s Kate the Vet of Kansas State University and my research partner on a couple of handwashing projects and papers back in the day.)

A little bit of kindness can go a long way, and that’s as important now as it was a month ago when the world changed overnight, maybe even more so.  Dr. Christopher Byers, a fellow veterinary internist in the US, wrote a blog post about how pet owners can help veterinarians during this crisis, and it also speaks to how we can all help each other.  Our mental and physical health go hand-in-hand, and are also closely associated with the health and welfare and care we are able to provide our animals.  Consider it a non-infectious consequence of a highly infectious disease, so I thought it was appropriate to share here.

You can read Dr. Byers full post on CriticalCareDVM.com, but here are his three very simple and practical points for pet owners:

  1. Be flexible
  2. Be kind
  3. Stay home if your pet isn’t sick

With restaurants still serving food, Florida conducted over 1,000 inspections in April

Despite the coronavirus pandemic, restaurants are, according to Jeff Weinsier of Local 10 news, still operating for take-out and delivery, and inspectors are out in full force.

Local 10 News’ Jeff Weinsier looked into the numbers and found that over 1,000 inspections have been made in Miami-Dade, Broward, Monroe and Palm Beach Counties during the month of April.

Sonny’s Famous Steak Hogies in Hollywood has been a staple in the community for over 60 years. Its dining room has become a storage area, but customers are keeping them extremely busy with take-out and delivery orders.

John Nigro of Sonny’s makes every one of his employees sign a copy of the restaurant’s rules, to ensure everything remains sanitary and follows the proper health guidelines. He knows a health inspector could pop in at any moment.

The good news is that no kitchens have been ordered shut over the past two weeks.

Berries on boats: You’re breakin’ my heart

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control reports that from July to September 2019, cruise line X experienced sudden, unexplained outbreaks (>3% of the passenger population) of acute gastroenteritis (AGE) among passengers on 10 cruise ships sailing in Europe. The rapid onset of vomiting and diarrhea followed by recovery within 24 hours were consistent with norovirus infection. Investigations by the cruise line throughout the summer yielded no clear source of the outbreaks even after extensive food testing.

On September 18, 2019, CDC’s Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP) was notified of an outbreak of AGE on cruise ship A of cruise line X, sailing into U.S. jurisdiction (defined as passenger vessels carrying ≥13 passengers sailing to the United States from a foreign port) from Germany to New York City (1). By the end of the 19-day voyage on September 23, a total of 117 of 2,046 (5.7%) passengers and eight of 610 (1.3%) crew members met the case definition for AGE (three or more loose stools within a 24-hour period or more than normal for the patient, or vomiting plus one other sign or symptom including fever, diarrhea, bloody stool, myalgia, abdominal cramps, or headache).

Four stool specimens were collected and tested for norovirus at CDC’s National Calicivirus Laboratory; three tested positive for norovirus by quantitative reverse transcription–polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR). No outbreak source was determined after a field investigation by a VSP team on September 22.

The following month, on October 7, CDC’s VSP was notified of two more outbreaks in U.S. jurisdiction. The first outbreak occurred on another ship (ship B) of cruise line X sailing to and from New York City along the eastern seaboard and affected 85 (3.9%) of 2,166 passengers and 10 (1.6%) of 612 crew members; the second outbreak occurred on ship A sailing from Montreal to New York City and affected 83 (3.7%) of 2,251 passengers and 10 (1.6%) of 610 crew members. VSP again conducted outbreak investigations on October 12 (ship B) and October 13 (ship A). Five stool specimens from ship B and two from ship A were collected for laboratory testing. During the field investigations, cruise line X’s public health officials reported to VSP that after reviewing food questionnaires completed by ill passengers on ship B, nearly 80% of completed questionnaires implicated a smoothie made from frozen fruits and berries. Because of the epidemiologic link and because berries have been implicated in past outbreaks (2,3), CDC requested assistance from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to collect frozen fruit and berry items from ship B for norovirus testing. Food item lot numbers from ship B matched those from the same frozen fruit and berry items on ship A.

Overall, nine of 11 stool samples from the three outbreak voyages on ships A and B tested positive for norovirus by quantitative RT-PCR at CDC; these included three of four from ship A’s first voyage, four of five from ship B, and two of two from ship A’s second voyage. The samples were typed as GII.2[P16]. FDA tested 16 frozen fruit and berry items, and three items tested positive for norovirus: raspberries (norovirus genogroup II), tropical fruit cocktail (norovirus genogroup I), and berry mix (norovirus genogroup I). Norovirus sequences from the stool samples and from raspberries were 97.5% similar. After removal of the fruit items, no further outbreaks were reported on cruise line X.

Upon further review of food provisioning, cruise line X determined that its food vendor had purchased several containers (nearly 22,000 pounds) of frozen raspberries of the same lot from a supplier in China beginning the end of June 2019. These raspberries had been supplied to the entire fleet of cruise line X. Both the epidemiologic and laboratory data implicated the raspberries as the cause of the outbreaks. As a result of these findings, on November 11, the World Health Organization issued a recall notice* for frozen raspberries traced back to China. This investigation highlights the importance of AGE surveillance at sea to prevent transmission of AGE illness through U.S. ports and to identify contaminated foods at sea that had not yet been implicated on land.

Notes from the field: Multiple cruise ship outbreaks of norovirus associated with frozen fruits and berries—United States, 2019, 24 April 2020

Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report pg. 501-502

Jared R. Rispens, MD1,2; Amy Freeland, PhD2; Beth Wittry, MPH2; Adam Kramer, ScD2; Leslie Barclay, MPH3; Jan Vinjé, PhD3; Aimee Treffiletti, MPH2; Keisha Houston, DrPH2

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6916a3.htm?s_cid=mm6916a3_e&deliveryName=USCDC_921-DM26466

Herb Tarlek and Cindy Williams (not exactly as shown, below, offer their rendition.

PCR in Sweden

Enteroinvasive Escherichia coli (EIEC) and Shigella spp. are both Gram-negative bacteria causing diarrheal disease worldwide [1,2]. The clinical presentations of these two pathogens are very similar [3,4] and commonly manifested through diarrhoea, abdominal cramps, nausea and fever both in children and adults [5,6]. In addition to a similar clinical picture, EIEC and Shigella share laboratory features that can make it difficult to distinguish between them in routine clinical laboratory practice. Both pathogens are transmitted via the faecal-oral route and infections are frequently associated with consumption of contaminated food and water [710]. While Shigella is associated with large-scale food-borne outbreaks [11,12], outbreaks caused by EIEC are rarely recorded.

High prevalence of EIEC infections have been documented in rural areas and settings with poor sanitation in high-risk countries [5,13] while EIEC infections in Europe are typically sporadic and travel related [14]. Nevertheless, a few EIEC outbreaks have been reported in Europe, with the most recent ones having occurred in Italy in 2012 [15] and in the United Kingdom (UK) in 2014 [16]. These outbreaks affected 109 cases and 157 probable cases, respectively, highlighting the fact that EIEC, like Shigella, has the capacity to cause large gastrointestinal disease outbreaks. The outbreak strain identified in these recent European outbreaks, EIEC O96:H19, is an emergent type of EIEC that has phenotypic characteristics more resembling those of non-invasive Escherichia coli (E. coli) than those described for Shigella [17]. These characteristics are suggested to contribute to improved survival abilities as well as the ability to better adapt to different ecological niches [17].

Traditionally, culturing of faecal specimens has been the mainstay of laboratory diagnostics for enteric bacteria, and EIEC has been differentiated from Shigella by assessing a combination of several phenotypic characteristics, including biochemical, motility and serological traits [18,19]. This is now changing as PCR-based methods are becoming routine in many diagnostic laboratories [20]. In contrast to non-invasive E. coli, EIEC and Shigella can invade and multiply in intestinal epithelial cells [21], a process that is partially mediated by the products of the invasion plasmid antigen (ipa) genes [22]. For this reason, PCR targeting the ipaH gene can separate EIEC from other non-invasive E. coli, but cannot differentiate between EIEC and Shigella [23]. The lacY gene has been proposed as an additional molecular marker for which most E. coli are positive and Shigella is negative [24]. Its use as a PCR target in separating Shigella and EIEC is restricted to bacterial isolates since many faecal samples are lacY positive because of the presence of E. coli in the normal flora.

In Sweden, several clinical laboratories have shifted towards the use of direct PCR testing on faecal specimens as the primary diagnostic tool. However, most of these laboratories culture PCR-positive samples, so called PCR-guided culturing. Although culturing of PCR-positive faecal specimens is routinely performed, it can be difficult to obtain EIEC isolates since the morphology of EIEC strains on commonly used substrates can mimic the morphology of the enteric background flora, yellow colonies on xylose lysine deoxycholate (XLD) agar, rather than the morphology of Shigella, red colonies on XLD agar. Hence, separating EIEC from other bacteria in the normal flora usually whhttps://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/sticker-could-improve-safety-of-our-cold-chain-food-333138?utm_campaign=NEWSLETTER_TN_Food%20%26%20Beverage%20Analysis&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=86254121&_hsenc=p2ANqtz–MMoS1KFFGpgRZ_seNnO0bmNz_SMVvraj4jqMu9SDGvKY_0jhrfEnmyzyUGUG4KMiZPINfu3qM8tMQOAJhBtcRodwdNw&_hsmi=86254121

Which is considered too time consuming for most clinical laboratories. For this reason, it is likely that a patient with specimens that are ipaH PCR-positive but culture negative would not be notified as a case if the diagnostic algorithm at the laboratory requires a detected Shigella isolate. In addition, PCR is a more sensitive method than culturing [25] and Shigella is known for its limited survival ability in faecal samples [26], which also may lead to samples being ipaH PCR-positive but culture negative.

Shigellosis is notifiable by law in Sweden as in the majority of countries in Europe [27]. In 2017, the incidence was 2.1 per 100,000 inhabitants in Sweden, and the majority of cases had been infected abroad [28]. The mandatory reporting of diseases allows the implementation of a series of public health actions, including public health management and surveillance activities, and helps define risk exposures. In contrast to shigellosis, reporting is not mandatory for EIEC and the occurrence of this pathogen in Sweden is currently unknown.It requires additional laboratory procedures such as screening large numbers of colonies,

Outbreak of gastroenteritis highlighting the diagnostic and epidemiological challenges of enteroinvasive Escherichia coli, county of Halland, Sweden, November 2017, 12 December 2019

Eurosurveillance

Nina Lagerqvist1,2Emma Löf1,3Theresa Enkirch1,2Peter Nilsson4Adam Roth1Cecilia Jernberg1

https://doi.org/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.9.1900466

https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.9.1900466

Food Safety Talk 209: Joe Exotic Stimulus Check

The show starts with some French Canadian references, cousin talk and Belgium TV shows (at least one). The guys talk a bit about code switching, and Ben’s rewatching of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (even the bad ones). They then talk about how COVID-19 is affecting essential employees, and what that means for the food industry and supply. Ben and Don talk about what they think about pausing inspections and go into a deep dive about a blip in recalls. The discussion shifts to chicken liver pate and forcemeats. The show ends with the guys talking about Adam Schlesinger and John Prine.

Download the episode here or at a podcast place.

Show notes so you can follow along at home: